Interview
Muhammad Haji Salleh: 
'EUROPE IS DECONSTRUCTING ITS SCHOLARY TRADITION'

By Dick van der Meij

A rotating professorship for Malay Studies was inaugurated at Leiden
University in 1993. The position is meant to be for Malay scholars to serve
two year terms in Leiden, and may comprise the fields of Malay Humanities:
Literature; Linguistics; History; Religion; and Anthropology. The chair is
financed by Leiden University, the Dutch Ministry of Education and Culture,
and Dutch Companies operating in Malaysia.
Professor Muhammad Haji Salleh from Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia is the
first scholar to occupy the chair. He was born in 1942 in Trong, Taiping,
Perak, Malaysia. He was educated in Malaysia, Great Britain, and the United
States of America (University of Michigan). His field of study is Classical
Malay Literature and literary science. 
The research conducted by Prof. Haji Salleh in Leiden comprises the Classical
Malay epic Hang Tuah, on which he is working in collaboration with Professor
H.J.M. Maier; the Classical Malay history Sejarah Melayu, and the cream of
Malay literature, the Pantuns.
Leiden provides an excellent centre of study of these subjects. Everything is
here, most essential of all manuscripts and excellent libraries, and moreover,
everything is to be found just around the corner. In Malaysia this is somewhat
otherwise. If I want to go to the library I have to confront traffic jams,
taking me two hours to get to the library and another two hours back. It is
so time consuming. Leiden is far better. I just go around the corner and I am
where I want to be. Moreover, there are more Malay manuscripts in Leiden than
in Malaysia, so I am in exactly the right spot for my studies.
As I am the first to occupy this chair, there were some initial problems to 
overcome, but in the whole everything is going well. The atmosphere is really
scholarly. Social demands are very limited in comparison to the situation in
Malaysia. There I may have to go to weddings and funerals all the time. Here
in Leiden these obligations are far fewer. I feel I can really work here and
make the utmost use of my stay.

ARE THERE ANY MARKED DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE ACADEMIC SITUATION IN LEIDEN AND
IN MALAYSIA?

O, Yes. In Malaysia the study centres on so-called big concepts, big ideas in
connection with society. In Leiden the atmosphere is more academic for the
sake of scholarship only. There is no such thing as a demand to conduct
research with an explicit relevance to society. In Third World countries in
general the so-called Ivory Tower does not exist. There the scholar has to be
part of and relate to society. In Leiden it is the divorce from society which
is prevalent.
For example, in Malaysia I am a member of about 40 committees: committees on
language, the National Library, Writers associations, workshops, translations,
the national committee for terminology and so forth. This is very time
consuming. It however does make you feel wanted but it leaves but little time
to devote to study. Of course, there is a financial problem as well. In
Holland salaries are enough to cover living expenses. In Malaysia we have to
sit in these sort of committees in order to stay alive.

THE COLONIAL PAST OF MOST THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES UNAVOIDABLY COMES INTO THE
CONVERSATION. IN THE COLONIAL PAST, MALAY LITERATURE WAS SEEN AS INFANTILE AND
AS A LITERARY INFERIOR. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH WESTERN CONCEPTS OF ART AND
BEAUTY AND WAS THUS REGARDED AS NEXT TO WORTHLESS.

Now we are supposed to enter into discussions about our literature whilst
knowing that most old studies are deprecating about it. It makes us feel we
have to conquer the world twice: firstly Malay literature itself, and secondly
the Western way of handling it.


WHAT THE ATTITUDE IN MALAYSIA TOWARDS SCHOLARS?

For a number of reasons the idea of research does not sink in deep into the
mind of the scholar. In Malaysia for instance, research to break new grounds
is virtually non-existent. In many places in Southeast Asia the situation is
more or less the same. Only Filipinos are more dynamic and in general good
scholars. 
Scholarly work in Malaysia is not really rewarded. Nor are the ideas scholars
have, for that matter. Success in the academic field means nothing in Malay
society. Success in the field of business and finance are very much approved
of, but scholarly work is held in very low esteem indeed. The result is a
brain drain from the university to industry. As a consequence, even some 40
to 50 years after decolonization there are still no really good scholars in
Southeast Asia. This is a deplorable situation which we have to solve
ourselves.


YOU ALSO TEACH AT LEIDEN UNIVERSITY, DO YOU NOT? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ABOUT
THE STUDENTS HERE?

You know it is amazing how deconstructive the Dutch students are.  They are
too free and do not attend class regularly. Sometimes only three students
appear instead of the seven I have. In Malaysia I would refuse to teach, but
here the situation is different. 
The essays they write are very self-centred with little reference to the work
done before. I suppose it is due to the concept of individuality that they
think they are the centre of the world. However that may be, as a consequence
of their laxity and lack of discipline the results of their studies will be
less than that of their predecessors. This is not only the case in Leiden, the
same thing I found in Hamburg. Perhaps it is a European phenomenon.
Europe is deconstructing its scholarly tradition. The person of the scholar
is foregrounded and his research is backgrounded. I am worried and disturbed
about this. People who do not attend class, for instance, do not understand
that there are some things you simply cannot learn from books. It is
impossible to have a dialogue with a book, you have to confront your teacher
with questions before you are able to really understand things. In Malaysia
the students are more inclined to attend class because the relationship
between teacher and pupil is still very much traditional. The guru should be
an older person to whom you have to pay due respect. In the Western world
these attitudes have already changed a long ago.
However, apparently many students simply want a degree and are not really
interested in the subject of their study. However, it does appear that Malay
students are working harder and wrestle more with their studies than those in
Holland, although the curiosity they show is virtually the same. 
Sometimes I wonder if Dutch students appreciate how lucky they are to live in
Holland. Just imagine, Malay students who study a foreign language may never
find themselves in the country where that language is spoken. In Holland, most
students can go abroad in the framework of a number of programmes. Sometimes
I feel life is made too easy for them.

HOW POPULAR IS THE STUDY OF MALAY LITERATURE IN MALAYSIA ITSELF?

Very popular. You can study Malay at a number of universities and in my
university, Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia, the number of freshmen this year
was 380 and 100 students chose it as their specialization in their fourth
year. So you see there is interest enough. However, just as in Holland, most
of them will not end in scholarly positions at a university. Most will end up
as editors, teachers and so forth. There are not many Ph.D students. Most
people who want to write their Ph.D do so because it is part of their job.
Most people will not write a dissertation of their own accord.